What are the scarcest Ball lids/caps/bands? in FAQ's Forum

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What are the scarcest Ball lids/caps/bands?

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leaderjar	What are the scarcest Ball lids/caps/bands?	Lead	[-]
Member Posts: 1764 (01/01/07 10:37 AM) Joe Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None This is kind of a leading question, since I know Jeff has quite a collection of lids and caps. It is probably a fairly safe guess that all the Perfection lids are scarce, with milkglass variations being downright rare. Does the following seem like a reasonable scarcity ranking? 1. Any milkglass Perfection Lid 2. Muncie Perfection Lid 3. Apple Green BBGMCo Lid 4. V Lid 5. Milkglass BBGMCo lids (regular and midget) 6. Milkglass Sun, Moon, Star Lid 7. Sun, Moon, Star Midget Zinc Cap 8. Other Perfection Lids 9. Special Run Cobalt Blue Wide mouth Lid 10. ? "> This list is purely a guess on my part... I know these are all tough to get, but just not "how tough". Regards, Joe Last Edited By: Michael 1908 09/19/09 02:45 PM. Edited 1 time.
OldHasBeen	Re: What are the scarcest Ball lids/caps?	#1	[-]
Member Posts: 786 (01/02/07 07:27 PM) Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Joe, Excellent question! I'd put one more in there though, or possibly two. The regular size Ball zinc cap for the Porcelain BBGMCo Lined jars, and the authentic tin lid for the PAT APLD FOR. Bob
leaderjar	Re: What are the scarcest Ball lids/caps?	#2	[-]
Member Posts: 1764 (01/03/07 04:28 AM) Joe Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hello Bob, That is excellent feedback. I had forgotten about the PAT APLD FOR jar. My heart might skip a beat if I were ever to find a Pint example with an original lid. I would even settle for a Pint example with a repro lid. What a joyous day it would be to find some of the lids and caps on this growing list! Regards, Joe
BallJarz	Re: What are the scarcest Ball lids/caps?	#3	[-]
Member Posts: 1762 (01/06/07 10:41 PM) Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Joe / Bob... I have a Pint example of the PAT'APLD'FOR" with an excellent repro lid but I also have a Quart with an original lid albeit it's in so-so shape but still yes original. Now, I've owned a milk glass Perfection lid & when I needed $$$ I sold it like a fool back in 1992 when I was having marital problems. Looking back, I was always having marital problems, at least with the ex so I should have never parted with it. That lid fetched $500 at that time though. Still, I think the milkglass Sun, Moon & Stars lid is possibly one of the scarcest of them all. Brucie
OldHasBeen	Re: What are the scarcest Ball lids/caps?	#4	[-]
Member Posts: 786 (01/07/07 03:06 PM) Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	All, I had two pint PAT APLD FOR jars that both had their original lid. Mason ended up with one and Erv ended up with the other. I sold a milkglass PERFECTION insert on ebay that I too wish I'd never gotten rid of. And it was unlike any I'd seen before. It was a PERFECTION #2 MUNCIE, IND insert but it was smaller than any of the PERFECTION jars mouths. It would fit completely inside any of my PERFECTION jars, even the 1/2 pints. We never did figure out exactly what it was meant for, but Dick Roller theorized that it may have been designed to fit the Perfect Mason that had the PERFECTION sealing ledge on the finish. Ball may have initially thought that their PERFECTION jars were going to be better than the Perfect Masons and were taking pre steps to retool a Perfect Mason finish to accomodate a PERFECTION style finish for testing. Since obviously the PERFECTION was a dismal failure, this idea was dropped like a hot potato. However there ARE examples of the Perfect Mason jars with a Perfection finish which the smaller size Perfection inserts would fit perfectly. (no pun intended) Bob
jeffreyharper	Re: What are the scarcest Ball lids/caps?	#5	[-]
Member Posts: 1174 (01/09/07 01:12 PM) Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yes, I have a good collection of Ball lids so I'll rank them on the basis of what I've paid or would pay for the lid. The prices are really a pretty broad range based on whether anyone else is bidding against me. I won't list actual dollar amounts (that is the reason for a Red Book - the values keep changing and need updating periodically), but will list in desirability categories In the top category, I'd put 1. milkglass Muncie #2 lid (sized to fit the 276-5 BPM with Perfection-type ledge, and as Bob said the lid fits perfectly on my example of this jar). 2. Milkglass Perfection lid - I have one with the full Muncie embossing, but I don't have one with just the patent dates. Here is a low resolution size comparison. 3. Blue Perfection Muncie lid. 4. Regular mouth Buffalo porcelain-lined zinc cap (Greg Spurgeon took the photos, and I now own the lid) 5. Milkglass Sun-Moon-Stars lid . I have been unable to get a good photo of this lid showing the SMS embossing. Everything I try just shows a milkglass lid with a smooth center. There is definitely the same SMS embossing in this lid as in any other glass SMS lid, but it is not deep and I can't get any contrast (with a 5 MP camera in full capture TIFF mode). Michael adds -- Since I had my jar out taking photos of the bands, I thought I'd take a shot at this insert. As Jeff said it is pretty difficult to get a good picture ... but here is my attempt [the long line through the center is a mold mark] In the next category I'd put 6. Pat Apld For lid (with some tinning still visible) 7. special run cobalt blue Ideal lid. [note: there is a picture of one of these cobalt blue wide-mouth lids on page 69 of "A Collector's Guide to Ball Jars". Apparently a limited quantity of these were made just to be given away at a company shareholders meeting! -Joe] Here is a photo of one I recently acquired in a trade, along side a wide mouth Eclipse lid. Note that the cobalt lid has two things embossed on the top of it - a Ball logo (script, underlined not dropped a, in the style used from approximately 1933 to 1962, at 3 O'clock in the photo) and a date: 1915 (at 9 O'clock in the photo). That's the year Ball started making the Ideal jars, but they had introduced the Sure Seal and Sanitary Sure Seal several years before then. None of those jars take this size lid. Ball started making the Eclipse Wide Mouth jars (which this lid fits) around 1928. So I'm not sure why the 1915 is embossed on the lid. 8. midget Sun Moon Stars lid 9. glass Buffalo lids with strong green or olive-green color In the very hard to come by next range: 10. glass Perfection lids with patent date only - harder in blue than flint 11. midget Buffalo porcelain-lined zinc cap Note that the word "BUFFALO" is embossed in this variation with an upside down "A" (at 7 O'Clock), which makes this one harder to find than the normal ones with everything spelled correctly. 12. V lid 13. milkglass Buffalo lids (midget, and regular as long as it isn't the 1976-1980 version). Here is a midget one. This is a regular mouth sized one. The final category of merely hard to find lids includes 14. proper blue lid for Ball Sure Seal Towle St Johnsbury jars (only one example is known in flint). There are two major differences between this lid and the similarly sized Lightning lids (even those without patent dates). (1) The lid is Ball Blue, and (2) the depression into the top center is much shallower with the Ball lid. 15. strong green or olive Ideal and Sure Seal lids (the green Ideal lid is shown next to a Ball blue one) Of course, this doesn't include the proper bands. In terms of rarity of those, the Perfection one stands out as the most difficult, followed by Buffalo midget and then the regular Buffalo band. Jeff edited 9-19-2009 to include photo of the cobalt wide mouth lid. Last Edited By: Michael 1908 09/20/09 04:42 PM. Edited 4 times.
Michael 1908	Re: What are the scarcest Ball lids/caps?	#6	[-]
Member Posts: 3664 (01/09/07 05:43 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Great information folks! Jeff, any chance of you adding pictures of each lid / band /cap to the text of your list so us newbie's would know what you are talking about?? How great would that be!? Michael Collector of Ball Special & Sure Seal jars
jeffreyharper	Re: What are the scarcest Ball lids/caps?	#7	[-]
Member Posts: 1174 (01/10/07 01:04 AM) Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Good suggestion - I edited my original part of this thread to add the photos. Jeff
Michael 1908	Re: What are the scarcest Ball lids/caps?	#8	[-]
Member Posts: 3664 (01/10/07 11:41 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Beautiful! Jeff, even though I saw (and have pictures of) your full lid display from the Memphis Expo, I could not see the details of each lid. Also, even IF I could see the details of the many lids you had on display, I could not have appreciated the scarcity/rarity value til now. The pictures WITH the text is very nice and informative. Thanks so much for sharing. Keep it up See ya tomorrow, Michael Collector of Ball Special & Sure Seal jars
leaderjar	Missing pictures	#9	[-]
Member Posts: 1294 (08/26/09 02:50 AM) Joe Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Jeff, we lost your pictures somehow. Looks like the links are broken. This is a great reference list! Regards, Joe
jeffreyharper	photos	#10	[-]
Member Posts: 711 (08/26/09 06:41 AM) Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Photos re-entered this morning. Jeff H
Michael 1908	Hi Jeff & All	#11	[-]
Member Posts: 3129 (09/19/09 02:48 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Of course, this doesn't include the proper bands. In terms of rarity of those, the Perfection one stands out as the most difficult, followed by Buffalo midget and then the regular Buffalo band. I edited the subject line for this thread to include bands ... please feel free to add photos of those tough to find all bands, including any comments/opinions/etc about the various Buffalo band styles [especially if there are some that "look like" Buffalo bands but were not made by the Ball Co.] We might as well keep all these closures together for the FAQ's section ;-) Michael Collector of Ball Jars ... Interested in downsizing and upgrading my collection

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What are the scarcest Ball lids/caps/bands?

What are the scarcest Ball lids/caps/bands?